(Thursday night) We got kicked out of the house! Given that we’ve been banished, it seemed like an opportune time to update the blog. Some of you have asked “Jerry, what’s up with the blog?” Well, it’s three things. First, I’ve been busy keeping the world safe for democracy in my day job. Mrs Woodworker won’t let me retire, so we have 23 more months to go. Second, Traughber Design has been swamped with orders, which is a good thing. Third, we’ve been getting the house ready to sell so we can continue our minimalism journey. That’s the reason we got kicked out of the house tonight: our realtor told us to beat it for the open house. That actually turned out to be a blessing since we caught up on our Five Guys addiction and it gave me some time to update you on the happenings at Traughber Design.
As far as those commissions, many thanks to Lisa Love for the furniture repair commission, Jeremy Wood for the woodturning commission, and neighbor Dave Strong for commissioning two home base footstools. Dave also commissioned some baseball bat stools which we’re working on. And a huge thank you to Dr Steve Ford for his gun cabinet commission (see our first post about that commission here). Speaking of which…
The picture above shows the glue up we did today attaching the face frame of the gun cabinet to the cabinet itself. Believe it or not, it took almost 40 hours to get to that point. The cabinet involves over 70 pieces and it took some time to carefully select each piece to match grain and avoid knots in the raw boards. In order to maximize efficiency, I cut all the 70 pieces at once so I didn’t have to keep switching back and forth between tools later. Not that it wasn’t fun, though. I enjoy letting the wood talk to me and tell me what each part wants to be. It’s also important to finish sand certain parts before gluing since they won’t be accessible once they are glued together. When finish sanding with three grits (80, 120, and 180) it takes some time. Be sure you are not sanding where the joints glue together, however, or you won’t get a solid bond. In the next step we’ll cut the two back panels which consist of black walnut plywood. After that, we start working on the base molding and crown molding which will be three carefully routed pieces glued together in an intricate pattern.
While projects like Steve’s are drying, I flip over to the second project, in this case the baseball bat stool. Thanks to Jacob Hummisch for his engineering prowess on this one. We jerry rigged a frame to hold the bats in place and to get the angles right for the stools. Now I just need to drill the holes and dry fit everything together. With any luck, I’ll post an update with pictures when that stool is done.
This interview is our fifth in a series of interviews with entrepreneurs and makers, this time with magazine writer, blogger, and photographer Lisa Traughber, the Best-Sister-In-The-Whole-World. Lisa has been published in multiple magazines and also won several photography awards. Our readers may find her move to slash her work hours in order to create very interesting.
Thank you for doing the interview. You have many creative talents and I think our readers will be interested in how you were able redesign your life to shift your time from working to making. You only work 3 days per week and spend 2 days per week creating: writing for magazines, blogging, and doing photography. You made that shift some time ago, and how you made that shift might be very interesting to our readers.
You’re welcome. Thank you for your interest.
You started with writing for magazines and have had several articles published. Tell us a little about how you got started.
I took a week long class a number of years ago that was devoted to writing articles for inspirational magazines. The class was held at the beautiful Glen Eyrie located in Colorado Springs. The class taught me everything I needed to know to properly submit articles for publication.
How were you able to go from 5 work days per week to 3?
I changed job locations within the same organization. The location change was the right time to cut down my work hours so I could pursue other things. The change also gave me more time to spend with my family. The people in administration at the organization were happy because they wanted someone who would be flexible with their hours when they opened the new location.
Was that a difficult transition?
It was a very easy transition. I simplified my expenses and had my mortgage and car paid off, so I had more freedom in cutting down my work hours.
Tell us a little about the focus of your blog.
My blog is specific to nature at the Horicon Marsh in Wisconsin. This includes the Horicon National Wildlife Refuge and the Horicon Marsh State Wildlife Area. My blog focuses on wildlife and plants along with talking about photography. My main goal is to share the beauty, creativity, and artistry found in nature.
How did you get started in photography?
I have been interested in photography since I was in high school. I set up shots around the house and took pictures in the yard. Later, two of my favorite subjects were (and still are) my niece and nephew.
You’ve won some awards. What does it take to get to that level?
It takes practice and study. I have taken thousands of poor photos. That part is necessary to arrive at an exceptional photo. I have also taken online classes and done a lot of reading. That has been helpful in learning the technical aspects of photography that can improve a photo. I am still learning and I share mistakes with my readers so they can learn with me.
The blog is something new you added in 2016. How is that going?
The blog is going well. I want to do at least one post per week. This motivates me to get out and shoot regularly. The blog is a wonderful outlet for me to work on my photography and writing skills. I have new readers checking it out every week.
How often do you write?
I write for the blog at least once a week. I also write in a journal occasionally. My focus is on the blog rather than writing magazine articles now. I enjoy the creative freedom that writing for a blog provides. When you write for magazines, you have to follow their writer’s guidelines. You may also receive more rejection letters than acceptance letters. That becomes discouraging. When you write for a blog, you may receive immediate feedback and, in my experience, it has been encouraging. Bloggers are often good cheerleaders for each other.
What have you learned on your blogging journey?
Prior to starting the blog, I took the class “Creating WordPress Websites” through Moraine Park Technical College. It is a 6 week online class. I learned everything I needed to know to get a website up and running. Knowledgeable instructors answered all of my questions. I highly recommend it.
Any big plans for 2017?
I plan to take the class “Writing Effective Web Content” (www.ed2go.com/mptc) to help me to develop my writing skills. I also plan to watch a photography DVD series I purchased a while back to improve my photography skills.
Tell us a little bit about your creative process.
My blog is photography driven. I will go for a drive or hike at the Horicon Marsh and whatever happens to be there that day can become the subject for my blog. I develop the written content from the photos. I try to include interesting, educational content as well as personal insights. At times, I will decide to look for something specific, like macro shots. I may also talk about the process of taking the photo if I think it is helpful for my readers.
What advice do you have for beginning bloggers or photographers?
I recommend taking classes, reading, and talking to other bloggers and photographers. You can avoid a lot of mistakes by learning what has worked for others.
Anything else you’d like to share with our readers?
Don’t be afraid to jump in and start your own blog. It is a great opportunity to learn and to meet others who share the same interests.
Thank you, Lisa!
For our other posts in the entrepreneur interview series:
Amazon best selling author Lawrence Colby, write of The Devil Dragon Pilot: Part 1 and Part 2. Colby has finished his draft of his second book, The Black Scorpion Pilot. Stay tuned for another interview with him after the book is available on Amazon.
This is our interview with our fourth entrepreneur in our interview series, Haleigh Heard, owner of S’Cute Petite bakery.
Tell us a little bit about your company.
I am a home bakery which specializes in cupcakes.
What else do you make?
You make other things besides cupcakes.
You made a cake.
I made a cake for a birthday party.
You made a cake for us, too.
Yes, I did. I don’t normally do cakes.
What is your biggest seller?
My biggest seller is my chocolate chip cupcake with butter cream or cream cheese frosting.
Is that the triple chocolate one or is that a different one?
It’s a new one. I’ve improved on it. It’s pretty good, you should try it sometime.
I should. Valentines Day is coming up. Can I place an order?
Sure. If you buy twelve, you get one free.
I’ll buy twelve then. Can you make twelve for us?
Sure, no problem.
How did you get started in baking?
I think I found my passion for baking about 4 years ago. Every Saturday afternoon I would go on Pinterest and I’d find something to bake. I’d bake it and bring it to Sunday School. I’d give it to the people in Sunday school class and say “try this.”
That was probably a ready audience.
I’d say “Did you like it? Did you not like it? What can improve? Is it good?”
Tell us a little bit about your creative process.
My creative process is pretty much I go on Pinterest a lot. I look at things. That’s how I got my chocolate chip cupcake. I forgot a couple ingredients in the recipe, and I decided to throw a handful of chocolate chips in it. It was probably the best chocolate chip cupcake and everyone was talking about it.
What are some of your entrepreneur lessons learned so far?
I’d have to say, you can never ask too many questions. I’ve asked my Dad a million questions like how should I sell my cupcakes? How to price them? My delivery system? How I should deliver? And then I think, just have fun with your business. You started it for a reason. It’s not a chore you have to do. I think that’s what I thought in the beginning was I had to have the perfect cupcake when I deliver it. It has to be perfect, and when it’s not I had a meltdown. I threw the cupcake away and I started again. That’s just the way my mindset was, that it had to be perfect. Now I’m having fun with my business. I’m getting more opportunities to promote myself.
Just have fun.
Or else, why do it?
Why do it? You have fun, right?
Absolutely. My time in the wood shop is a lot of fun.
Really, have you ever stabbed a finger? Did you ever miss?
I stabbed myself with the jigsaw the other day. It wasn’t too bad. I rinsed it off, slapped a bandaid on it and kept going.
Shake it off, right?
What advice do you have for beginning entrepreneurs?
Have fun. You started your business for a reason. Don’t make it a chore.
Anything else you’d like to share with our readers?
I am planning on doing coupons and gift certificates, for things like Valentines Day, Mothers Day, and Fathers Day.
That will be a big seller, I think. Try it. If it doesn’t work, move on to something else. Where can we learn more about your company?
You can can go on Facebook and type in “S’Cute Petite” (click here to go to Haleigh’s business Facebook page). I’m trying to figure out more options.
Are you going to have a website besides Facebook or is Facebook going to be the primary?
Facebook is going to be the primary because you can go straight to Facebook Messenger and let me know what you’d like.
Thank you for your time, Haleigh. We love the cupcakes. Readers, go to Haleigh’s FB page and order some!
For our other posts in the entrepreneur interview series:
Amazon best selling author Lawrence Colby, write of The Devil Dragon Pilot: Part 1 and Part 2
We just made another deal last weekend to make some baseball bat themed footstools and bar stools, which was terrific. Then I did the math on our total backlog and it’s over 100 hours! Remember, this is a part time gig until I retire (Mrs Woodworker won’t let me retire) and I can only comfortably do about 6 hours per week in the wood shop, especially given work travel. That means my backlog works out to about 17 weeks or 4 months, which is too long for my taste. Why? Because there are a few other commissions I’ve been discussing with potential clients that I’d really like to build. They look like really fun projects. Doing these new deals is not about bringing in new business, but about making things that are interesting. How does an entrepreneur manage their backlog when it gets too big? Read on!
#1: Throttle Back on Marketing, But Not Completely
An entrepreneur needs to maintain the flow of business, because the backlog could be gone at some point. We always want new business walking in that door, but not too much or quality will suffer, or we’ll have to turn away too many clients. To give you a specific example, you may have noticed I’ve started to tweet here and there with some updates on what is going on in the shop (follow us at Twitter handle @TraughberDesign). I could be tweeting a lot more, but decided to just tweet occasionally until we’ve worked off more of that backlog. We also have a Pinterest account and could be doing a lot more other on the social media front with apps like Instagram. At this point, though, we need that time in the shop.
Something else to start thinking about is what is your ideal backlog number? That number could be in hours or number of projects to ship, or some other metric. Then work towards that metric you’ve set. Over 100 hours is too much right now for Traughber Design, but once I’m doing this full time, that number may be too low if I work a 40 hour week in the wood shop. What’s the right number for your business? Have you thought about that? You want enough of a backlog to keep yourself gainfully employed for a while, but how long? How frequently does new work typically come in the door? As I mentioned earlier, this backlog will take me 4 months and I can estimate pretty well how much new work we’ll get in that time period. That will determine how much effort (or not) we spend on marketing. We’ve already had 4 commissions this year and it’s only February so we need to manage the incoming and outgoing flow.
We just talked about investing less (time) in marketing, where should the entrepreneur invest?
#2: Invest in Capital Expenditures that Make You Faster
Maybe buying tools should always be the default answer! One can never have enough tools, I suppose, unless you’re traveling a minimalist journey as Mrs Woodworker and I are. But what do I mean by “buy more tools”? I mean to look for opportunities where a tool or jig will make you faster or more efficient in whatever your creating enterprise is. To give you an example, I anticipate we may be making a lot of the baseball bat themed foot stools and bar stools. Is there a tool I can buy that will speed up production while maintaining or improving the quality? Is there a jig (a specially made apparatus to hold pieces in place to make cutting/sawing/drilling/etc. easier) I can make that makes positioning the bats easier to speed things up? Yes, of course there are. I’ve made one prototype foot stool from three bats and can see the value in making a jig for the bar stool to precisely align the bats and drill holes for the cross pieces that will hold the bats in place in the stool. If I make the jigs now, we’ll reap the benefits in the long run with time savings on every piece.
So we can speed things up with capital expenditures, but how about allocating our time wisely?
#3: Reallocate Your Time
As I wrote about earlier in the post Get Out of the Rat Race: How to Manage the Transition from Career to Maker, entrepreneurs have tremendous freedom to decide where to focus their efforts. That’s one of the reasons we start these journeys: freedom and creativity. Not only is it about allocating time after the day job is over, but occasionally an entrepreneur will run across some “bonus time.” There was a bit of serendipity with this holiday weekend. We had planned to go cross country skiing in West Virginia, but the snow forecast was abominable. We cancelled and went out with friends at least one night, but that freed up the entire weekend for some making every morning. I’m the lark, or early riser, in the family so I naturally get up to write a little then hit the wood shop before every one is up. Then we spent the rest of the day together. I try not to work in the shop late in the day because fatigue and power tools don’t go together. I’d like to keep my fingers. If you are an entrepreneur, look for opportunities like that to do a little extra making. For you, would that be early in the morning? Stealing some time during the day? Late in the day? Using a portion of a holiday weekend?
As we’ve written about earlier, if you don’t have enough time you can always pull out that time creation machine we wrote about in the post Time is not Finite and make some time.
#4: Enjoy the Ride
When you run across a “problem” with a backlog like this, it’s important to step back for a minute and do a couple things.
One thing is to pat yourself on the back for having a backlog in the first place. Remember when you started as an entrepreneur? You had zero backlog and were just hustling for revenue. Now that you have one, congratulate yourself. Mo Johnson, the owner of Better Display Cases, discusses that more in our entrepreneur interview series.
This is Part Four, the last portion of our interview with Mo Johnson, the owner of Better Display Cases. For Part One click here, Part Two, click here, and Part Three click here.
I want to be respectful of your time, I know you’re busy. Last question. Anything else you’d like to share with our readers?
One thing I want to say is vets have a big leg up. I don’t know if people understand that. There is a lot to being successful on Amazon and on the Internet. Of course, you need to have a good product. The most important thing of all is your reviews by customers. So that’s super duper important. So generally speaking, people want to help out a vet. That’s what I put on every product we sell, which has a little slip of paper in there explaining who we are. The business was started by a vet. We get a lot of good feedback. You’ve probably seen those things. We just get a lot of good feedback. We have a good product, and we have outstanding customer service. I believe that vet thing really is the difference. The key thing that has put me over the hump. It’s the difference maybe between 90% positive and 99% positive. That difference is everything.
Who doesn’t want to support a vet?
Yeah, all things being equal. On Amazon, the difference between ranking #1 and #10 is everything. #1 gets 90% of the sales, and #10 gets no sales. #2 maybe gets, 10% of the sales. That vet thing is huge and I don’t know if vets really understand that. I just point that out. Especially if you’re competing in a big way. I’m sure people like to help vets locally, too, but I’m not sure there are a lot of vets that sell locally. It’s a good thing. I just stumbled on this, I didn’t know. I’m competing against big sellers all across the country and when the buyer looks at two things all they know about it is “vet” or “no vet.” It’s a really big advantage I think. A lot of people comment on that and say “thank you for your service” so I know it’s a pretty big deal. I know it’s not much of a difference between the good sellers and the outstanding ones, as far as the metrics go. It’s not just Amazon, it’s eBay, it’s Walmart, Etsy, all these places we’re on now. That’s been a really important factor.
If you have more thoughts, send them my way. This is probably going to be a two or three parter, which is good. Thanks!
Mo Johnson sent the following thoughts via E-mail after the live interview:
Hey Jerry, thanks for the interview. Love the blog you are doing — great idea. One thing we didn’t talk about is how we came up with the motto: “display your story”. That happened after I was floored by customers contacting me, sharing very personal stories about how much our cases meant to them. Usually it involved an item that they were displaying that had belonged to a loved one who had passed away. I mean people have called me, literally crying and telling me they wanted me to know that our cases were much more than just a display case. That all really surprised me and changed the way I thought about the business. We weren’t just in the business of creating, manufacturing and selling a product. Rather, it is more about the item the customer is displaying. More about their story. Displaying their story. That’s really what it’s about. We are helping people to display (and thereby tell) their life stories, the things most important to them.
OK, so that’s one thing I wanted to mention. Also, one point of that is that once you start down the entrepreneurship road, you really don’t know where it will lead. So, that’s both scary and exciting.
Another thing, related to that, is I think you and I spent a good amount of time with me dwelling on the negatives of entrepreneurship — the long hours and stress of it. And the impact of that. That’s definitely true and important to understand. I was tired yesterday so thinking more about that side of things 🙂
On the other hand, it is also very rewarding to know that you are building something from nothing to what it has become. The impact that it has on so many people. It may sound corny but in its own way, Better Display Cases has changed the world — for the better. Many display cases we design, make and sell are new and different and never been seen before. Most were things customers asked for. They are being used to display people’s stories that maybe would never have been told otherwise.
That’s what I was getting at when I mentioned before that I work all the time. That’s true. The business is on my mind pretty much all the time (unless something more urgent replaces it) — but my mind is always wandering to what we can do better and solving problems. And, I have piles of notes and calendars and audios — all with notes of ideas I’ve had that I wrote down or recorded and need the time to go over again and implement. I also have a never-ending flow of emails and online blogs, audios, articles, etc — all with ideas, tools, etc that can improve the business in one way or the other.
Right now I’m initiating a huge change that hopefully will put all our selling channels on one place where we can change all listings from one central locations if we want to make changes and also keep track of inventory — and also do shipping. Part of that is negotiating a better deal with FedEx — anyway, all that is a long story, but just a small example of the kind of things I’m always working on. Many things you try don’t work. So, it’s not a straight line. Which is part of why the process of innovating and getting better is never ending. Each one of those things involves not only the technology but the people and the partners and all the issues that go with all that.
Then, as a small business owner I’m also building manager (yesterday just before you got there, a pipe burst that I was dealing with). I’m chief technology officer (anything breaks, my problem). Chief tax officer (have a part time accountant, but I still have to gather all the info for her which is the most time consuming part). Custodian (thinking of hiring a cleaning crew, not sure if worth the money). Head of HR. On and on. There’s no substitute for the owner. Only the owner cares like an owner.
Theres nothing as hard, or rewarding, as starting and building a small business. So, there is not enough time in the day to do all I would like to do. Which is why, there’s never a spare moment because I always have good stuff I could be doing. That’s the working all the time piece.
But, importantly, I don’t think of it as work at all. It’s just me. It’s who I am and what I do — as much as I can. There’s almost no where I’d rather be than in my office, “working”. So, I both work all the time and not at all — if that makes sense. It’s very cool to wake up every day and know that your time will be spent building something of your own — rather than something that belongs to someone else.
Another thing — I mentioned how being a vet is a big advantage for me. The other thing that has really helped is that I have little competition. The reason for that is that my business is a terrible business in many ways. When I started, I mentioned those groups I was part of that were looking at importing from China. I mentioned my idea to them. Unanimously — everyone said it was the stupidiest idea they’d ever heard. “Of all the things you could import from China, why pick something so large, expensive to ship, and so likely to be damaged in shipment — nightmare.”
I replied: “yes I agree, show me something else I can import that has the same profit margin”
So, I gave it a shot (by the way the profit margin has turned out not to be as great as I thought when I started, but still, fortunately, it’s good) .
Really that is a common thread in the business. Most of the important things I’ve done that have proven to be really successful were things I was told not to do.
1. go into the acrylic display case business 2. sell them on Amazon 3. make cases without mirrors 4. make cases with silver risers (in China they told me “no body like silver; everybody want gold” — this is what I began to tell you at one point yesterday — if one of my competitors wanted to do something like sell with silver risers — first they’d have to convince their supplier to go to the manufacturer and then the manufacturer would have to agree to make them. Plus, the big supplier in the U.S. is HUGE and orders millions of cases many months in advance. So, probably won’t even listen to a small seller. We are small, nimble, responsive, willing to take risk. We cut out the middle man and design/manufacture ourselves and sell direct to the customer.. Anyway, China was wrong. Lots of people want silver risers. 5. make cases with black risers (see 4 above)
So for me, it’s truly been the road less traveled that made all the difference. Well, that should about cover it I think. Again, thanks for the interview. Talk to you later
Sorry, one more thing, then I’m done.
I didn’t talk much about all the customization work we do. I’d say about half the cases we ship require some major customization — changing riser color or mirror or turf, etc. You probably had the impression we just ship what we receive from China. But, because we have soooo many options, it doesn’t usually work out that way. Which is a huuuge challenge.
Many thanks to Mo for not only his time during the original interview, but also taking the time to document and send his thoughts after the interview. I don’t know about you, but I learned a lot listening to his story of success!
Last week we passed 1000 readers of the blog! Many thanks to all of you for spending the time here and your support. As you can see from the picture, the blog seems to be really taking off, which is encouraging since we just launched on September 8th.
We’ve learned many things about blogging and launching this digital side of Traughber Design which I’ll share in a future blog post, but just wanted to mark this milestone and pass along my thanks to all of you!
One day, Mrs Woodworker decided that she needed one of those gargantuan stainless steel refrigerators to spruce up the kitchen. I reckon’ I don’t have a problem with that, since the other appliances were already stainless steel or were about to be upgraded to stainless steel to jazz up the kitchen. Being the awesome husband that I am, I told her to buy whatever she wanted. She’s pretty frugal so I figured this was a low risk offer. So she did some serious refrigerator reconnaissance, ordered one she liked, and the company delivered it. Lo and behold, it didn’t fit in the alcove in the kitchen! Now if I was buying a refrigerator, I’d measure the opening and buy an appliance that fits the hole. But that’s not how the mind of Mrs Woodworker works. She thinks “Aha, I’ve got a husband that makes things and has really awesome Festool tools. I’ll buy whatever I like and he’ll figure it out.” Which is what we did. Thank goodness we had invested in good tools. Here are 3 reasons you should invest in the best tools you can afford:
Reason #1: Speed
All sarcasm aside, it was fun to whip out this project over an hour or two last weekend. We had to knock out some of the drywall to the left of the fridge when we installed it, and there was an ugly jagged edge there where the drywall was missing. Given how close the refrigerator was to the wall, we couldn’t just slide the refrigerator out and replace the drywall. Using the planer, track saw, mitre saw, and router, we were able to cut moulding as shown in the pictures to 1/4″ thickness, 1″ width, and then routed the edges with a 3/8″ round over to make it blend into the wall a little. In addition, I mitered the upper corners to make it look nicer. After a coat of paint to make it match the walls, we were done. That sounds like an incredible amount of work, but it only took and hour or two.
There are a couple ways that buying into a system of tools increases your speed. One is that if you have the entire core of tools, you don’t have to jury rig something to make the desired cut, which I’ve had to do in the past. You already have the right tool for the job and can get right down to the work. In addition, if I had had a myriad of tools that weren’t part of a system, switching the dust vacuum back and forth between tools could be an issue which would reduce our speed. For example, with the Festool system you can very quickly switch the vacuum from tool to tool. Speaking of the dust vacuum…
Reason #2: Your Health
I can’t emphasize enough the importance of buying quality power tools along with a dust collection system. For this project, I was able to shift the dust collector from the sliding compound mitre saw, to the track saw, to the router in no time flat. Unfortunately, the planer generates a ton of shavings and dust so I just did that outside. When cutting small pieces like this moulding there is usually plenty of ventilation outside, but for planing large boards, use a mask. But most of the work you do will be inside, and that’s where a HEPA dust collection is so important. Those tiny particles you are generating with all those tools will lodge in your lungs over the long haul and you will be incapacitated. I have read multiple articles over the years about woodworkers who didn’t think carefully through this and developed lung issues. No one wants that. Get the dust collection system.
Reason #3: Simplify Decision-Making
I was giving a shop tour to a young fella the other day who was trying to get some ideas for setting up his own shop and was deciding whether to invest in Festool. If he does go that route, he’ll have the advantage of owning great tools much earlier in life. I didn’t start buying my high end tools until 2014. Now when I buy tools, I don’t have to agonize over it. I’ve bought into a system of tools that interconnect and have proven themselves in the shop. If I need a new tool, I just buy Festool if they have that tool.
Truth in advertising here, I’m not a Festool affiliate and receive no compensation from them. I’m just a Festool Fan (see our post here about why I love Festool and our post here about tools and minimalism).
As we said in the title, buy the best tools you can afford. They will increase your speed, save your health, and simplify your decision-making. You won’t regret it.
This is the Part Three of our interview with Mo Johnson, the owner of Better Display Cases. For Part One click here. For Part Two click here.
So how was that transition going from the military to being an entrepreneur? Although, I suppose you always were one, weren’t you?
That’s why it’s hard. I never really decided to be one. I never finished that story of how I got into display cases. I always had the idea of being an entrepreneur. I applied for other (government) jobs and none of those panned out. In retrospect, I spent a lot of time applying for jobs. I guess it was a waste of time. So I was separately doing different tracks. I’m not crazy; it’s not like I said I’ll never work for the government. It wasn’t like that. It just happened. I had a website which might still be up called Zero Risk Internet Marketing, and I was going to help small businesses improve their internet marketing and get paid for that. My zero risk concept, which I still think is a good concept, but it didn’t work for me…that’s what I was saying, things that work you invest more, and if they don’t you’ve got to quit. My concept with that is that I would work for free for people, but we would split the profits of whatever sales I was able to increase. Obviously there is a real problem with tracking that. How do you know what your impact was on a sales increase? I never really solved that problem. I worked for a couple people and helped them out, but they never paid.
I can see that would be a problem.
It was, what do you call it, a non-profit situation. So I was helping a lady, she was doing a website to help vets start businesses which is kind of, what’s the word?
Ironic? (both laughing)
That was me (a veteran), but she didn’t want to pay me. So I stopped that project. If you went to that website it looked pretty good and I never made a penny out of all that effort. I had a few months there where I still had government pay. At that point I decided I’d be a realtor. Not a bad idea. Maybe that would have worked out well. I have a website called PWCVA.com which I used to put a lot more effort into. It’s all local in Prince William County. So my idea was I would use that to market and be known. I would focus on representing military buyers, which is a great, great market if you can get ’em, because they are easy: they have guaranteed income. They can get the loans.
You can link up with USAA and their transition program.
They move a lot, so it’s high churn. All that sounded really good. I’ve always really liked real estate. I loved visiting houses and seeing what they’re like. I love that, actually. It was kind of fun for me. So that was what I was going to do. And I was beginning the process of studying for the real estate exam. One day, I don’t know why, for some reason, I searched Google for NFL Fatheads. I used to rank high for that search term with SECSportsfan. I think I was just curious. At that point I had given up on the idea of making money on the Internet. That’s impossible. And up popped somebody’s store on eBay. Like #2 or #3 in Google. I was like wow, that person’s doing pretty good. They’re getting a lot of good searches. Wonder how they’re doing it. So I went to their store. I wouldn’t have ever pursued anything except I would have figured well, somebody just got lucky. Maybe they put a lot of money into it. Maybe they know somebody. Maybe the New York Times wrote an article about them and that’s why they’re ranked. Who knows. I wouldn’t have thought anything of it, except the guy who owned that page, I knew. He used to be a partner of mine. So I was like, if he can do it, I can do it. I know him. Right at that moment I had picked up the phone, and I called Fatheads. I said I want to sell Fatheads; how can I become a distributor? Luckily I got Lindsay Fraterolli. That’s the person I talked to. She signed me up, and she gave me a lot of tips along the way. I never would have made it without her. I started selling them on eBay, and it worked. I sold a lot of Fatheads that Christmas. That was December 2013. I had no job. I had nothing going for me. I did this thing with Fatheads. I was just amazed. I had tried so hard and gone through so much and it had just all just fallen apart really. They had a cash register. It used to go ka-ching, ka-ching. And I was just amazed. It was ka-ching, ka-ching. Ten, fifteen, as it got closer to Christmas is was twenty times a day. To me, that was amazing. I was making, I don’t know, ten or fifteen bucks on each one. You add that up it’s a few hundred dollars a day.
Not bad. Not bad.
The only limit was they had limits on the eBay account. They had limits on how much you could sell. I would hit that limit every day and kept calling them every day and ask for exceptions. They kept trying to make it better. Once that happened, it was working. That’s it. I was on to that. One thing leads to another. I started selling Fatheads on eBay. I started selling football helmets on eBay. I found a guy who was a distributor wholesale. All this stuff I wasn’t buying, I was just getting the sale and it was drop shipping. Fathead was shipping it. I was making the money. I was selling a good bit. Growing, growing, growing. Then in January, eBay called me out of the blue and said “Hey, we see you’re selling sports-related stuff, do you have any display cases?” I said “What are you talking about?” They told me “People put collectibles in display cases, and we have a lot of demand for them and not a lot of supply so can you help us out?” I said ” I don’t have any, but I’ll look into it.” I looked around a lot. I tried to do the same thing I was doing with Fatheads and football helmets. I tried to find somebody I could buy them from and resell them. I just couldn’t really find anyone. I had a hard time with that. At the same time, I was looking for the next thing. I was in a lot of Facebook groups at the time. Somehow, I was involved in people talking about importing from China. That was big. It was just starting back then. The idea is you buy stuff in China, import it, resell it. I was already trying to figure out what I could do. It sounded like a good idea. Then I get this call from eBay out of the blue. I know there’s a good demand for it, and not much supply. It’s a pretty credible source if eBay is calling you.
Seems like a no-brainer.
I searched on Ali-Baba for display cases and lo and behold, and I didn’t know this, but China makes all the display cases in the world, for the most part. I got a couple samples from a couple different people. I ended up selecting a company to go with. That’s a whole story in and of itself. Part of the way that worked, I bought an ebook online from someone that had been an importer all their life. They wrote an ebook about it and they put in there if you buy my ebook I’ll help you out personally you can contact me with any questions. It’s pretty scary, the first time you’re sending somebody a $30,000, $40,000 check and you have to trust that it’s going to come. That’s a big deal. That’s why I’m saying, I was very fortunate. There are many places along the way where I was lucky. That’s why I wouldn’t tell someone to be an entrepreneur. I know where I’m at and it’s a good place, but it’s a risky place and could still fall apart. I know the stress and difficulty. That’s why I wouldn’t tell somebody to be an entrepreneur. You’ve got to be lucky. I chose one, but I wasn’t sure, there was something questionable about the payment they were asking for. I had this guy with the ebook and he looked into them assured me they look credible and go with them. And it worked out. They’ve been great. They’re a great partner. They make a great product and stand behind it if there are problems. I just haven’t ever had any problem, and obviously that’s crucial. So that’s how I got into display cases. So I still sell those, those are my three products. The display cases are the growing part of the business, because I can control it the most. I design them myself. All the cases are things I made up. I didn’t just copy someone else’s. I got generally speaking, ideas, but I set the measurements; they’re mine. No one makes them exactly the way we do. Once we started going then it’s been the feedback from the customers and also my employees who’ve come up with a lot of great ideas. That’s what’s really propelled the company. First it was just the basic products, which by the way at first, I stored in my house and shipped then from my house. Then I got a storage facility, Dumfries Self Storage. At first I started with one storage facility, when the first container from China came, it’s not going to fit in there. Luckily, and again I keep saying this word, it just so happened, because usually that place is full. They had another storage place right next to the one that I had already got open. So I was able to that day to go down and get both of them, and I needed both of them and so we filled up both of those storage places. I worked out of there for about a year, I guess. No electricity, no heat, no lights. That was difficult, in retrospect. That’s why I always, when ever people complain here, I’m like…
This is ten times better.
You have no idea. They’ll say we’re not going to have space for the next shipment. Believe me, we have space.
We’ll figure it out.
The things I did, no employee would ever do. Everything had to be stuffed in there. I didn’t have enough space. I’m not stupid. I know what stuff sells the most. I’d put the stuff that sold the most in front. But still, every once in a while a customer would order something that was way in the back. So my choice was either to pull everything out, or I would take my shoes off and climb on my stomach like a snake and go all the way to the back. I would be sweating like a pig coming out of there. I just remember all that. That’s helpful when you are growing to look back where you were and give yourself a pat on the back and realize how far you’ve come. You have to enjoy the ride. Otherwise it’s no fun at all.
It seems like the business is doing really well. You have a couple employees I met on the tour, and then you talked about a vacancy, and there’s a lot of turnover. How do you deal with all of that? That’s one of the challenges, right?
Yeah, that’s one of our biggest challenges is keeping employees. I have two great employees now and we had two other great ones. They were missionaries and they were called by God into the mission field.
You can’t really argue with that.
I can’t compete with that. I lost them. We’re just trying to replace them. There was so much we could do when Wayne was here. He did a listing on Indeed, I think it was. It was a great listing. Better than I ever could have done. I wouldn’t have thought of how to present the job in such a positive light as he did. We got flooded with applications. I was shocked. I always thought we would have a really hard time finding anyone. We got hundreds of applications. That was a lot of time to wade through that and talk to people. We went through that whole process. We picked somebody. He didn’t work out. I had to fire him, actually. We went to the next guy. It took awhile to figure out that he wasn’t going to work out. Then I got rid of him. Then we brought in our second choice guy, he was still available. He was great. Then his family moved to Arizona. The other people have not been so good (laughing). They just didn’t like the job, I guess.
You said some people don’t want to work. Which is kind of surprising.
Some people don’t. Everyone has a different story. Hopefully I’ll find somebody good. That is the biggest challenge by far. Honestly, there a lot of options. That’s one of the nice things about having a business: you have a lot of options. We could ship more to Amazon. We could change things so that we ship everything just to Amazon and we have Amazon fulfill our individual orders. They already do a lot of that if you have Amazon Prime and we have the products there, they come from Amazon. Right now, we’re so far behind. We got wiped out over Christmas. Everything got sold. What happens then is we have the listings both ways, you can buy them Amazon fulfilled if they have them, or we ship them. Right now we have nothing there in stock which means everyone is buying direct from us. With one guy, basically, and me helping, we’re doing all we can just to fulfill the individual orders. We need somebody to work full time on shipping to Amazon so we can get caught up. If we ever did get caught up, and we got everything in to Amazon then we could change things and have Amazon do everything and fulfill individual orders. But that costs a good bit. I would rather hire someone and do it from here. It would be more cost effective. We already have a warehouse, the facility. A lot of people don’t. Some people do this stuff in their home office sitting in their underwear, they have nothing. Some people, believe it or not, buy stuff from China they ship it direct to the Amazon warehouse and all they’re doing is sitting on the computer passing money around and telling Amazon what to do. Our product requires a lot more attention, I think. That would be hard for me to imagine.
Maybe one of our readers is looking for a job and they can contact you.
I’m trying to transition everything to Made in the USA and I hope to be able to do that this year. I’ve been working with a guy in North Carolina for a while and gradually having him make more and more of the cases. I’d love to be 100% “Made in the USA” by the end of 2017.
Stay tuned for Part Four, the last section of our interview with Mo…
Are robots going to put you out of a job? What should you do about it? Alec Ross recently came out with a book titled “The Industries of the Future” where he writes about the coming disruption due to robots and artificial intelligence that got me wondering “what does this mean for entrepreneurs and woodworkers?” Will robots replace us all? Let’s take a look. I’ll give you three entrepreneur strategies to survive the robot invasion based on some of the prognostications in Ross’ book.
#1 Make Your Own Job
Some folks may think the widespread adoption of robots is in some far-off future, but Ross says “Japan already leads the world in robotics, operating 310,000 of the 1.4 million industrial robots in existence across the world.” As you can see, the robots are already here and there will only be more. We’d all better think very carefully about the career we have or the career we want, because it may not exist in the future. For example, about a year ago I went on a trip to Japan. My buddy and I went to a restaurant to grab a bite and when we walked in there was a kiosk facing the door with large buttons with pictures of entrees on them. We picked what looked good, plopped in our yen, and the machine spit out a ticket. We sat down and a few minutes later, a human delivered our food. There were only two staff in the entire restaurant: the food-deliverer and the cook. That restaurant model already exists in other countries and is on its way to the United States. All those workers at McDonalds and Burger King may be soon be gone.
Ross talks about this move to automate: “Boiled down to economic terms, the choice between employing humans versus buying and operating robots involves a trade-off in terms of expenditures. Human labor involves very little ‘capex’ or capital expenditures–up-front payments for things like building, machinery, and equipment–but high ‘opex,’ or operational expenditures, the day-to-day costs such as salary and employee benefits. Robots come with a diametrically opposed cost structure: their up-front capital costs are hight, but their operating costs are minor–robots don’t get a salary. As the capex of robots continues to go down, the opex of humans becomes comparatively more expensive and therefore less attractive for employers.” Almost every business today is doing the cost/benefit analysis of whether to make those capital expenditures comparing the cost of humans versus robots. As the cost of robots come down, more humans will be replaced.
It is clear that many of traditional jobs will be going away, which is all the more reason to start preparing for the robotpocalypse. Ross writes “How much harder will it be to get a first job? How about a second?” One of the ways is to make your own job, as Mo Johnson did at Better Display Cases, Lawrence Colby did in writing his first book, or some of the other entrepreneurs did that we are about to profile in this blog. Mo and Lawrence are each earning some good $$$ because they decided to make their own jobs, but that requires some solid planning and execution.
I recently ran across an article in Popular Woodworking that is another great example of creating your own job and is also a good model for people transitioning out of the military. The story (click here for link) called “End Grain: Marine Corps to Shop Floor,” talks about Grant Burger’s journey from Marine to full time craftsman. Grant knew he was getting out of the military and created his own job, by using his education benefits to attend a furniture making school in Boston. Now he is selling rocking chairs that cost more than $2000 each and are absolutely beautiful. To see some of his work, check out Grant’s blog here.
This automated, robotic future is not something to fear, but is a fertile playground of opportunity for the entrepreneur, as we’ll see below.
#2 Go Microentrepreneur With The Codification of Money, Markets, and Trust
“But the codification of money, markets, payments, and trust is the next big inflection point in the history of financial services. Understanding what it means for your and your business will be important regardless of whether you are a plumber or the CEO of a fortune 500 company.” Entrepreneurs need to embrace these changes or run the risk of being left behind. Ross goes on to profile Square, the company that created the attachment you can use with a tablet to swipe and process credit cards: “From its inception, Square has been about enabling the kind of small-scale transactions…Its approach has been to try to eliminate the costs and complication of standard credit card transactions.” This creates a tremendous opportunity for woodworkers, or any craftsman, for that matter. Many of my fellow woodworkers sell their pieces at arts and crafts fairs. With tools like Square, any entrepreneur can charge a sale anywhere at any time, such as at craft fairs.
“Square and its competitors are trying to reduce friction in the marketplace. They are trying to dial down the complication and the tens of billions of dollars spent in the form off credit card fees, exchange fees, or the cost of lost transactions…” As we wrote about in our post on Clausewitz, entrepreneurs are continually trying to overcome friction, and companies like Square will only help. The CEO of Square “believes that Square is part of a larger trend refocusing the economy toward bottom-up innovation. He explains, “one of the reasons we started this company, from a personal standpoint, is this trend toward more local experiences. So I think the fabric of the neighborhood and how online is pointing to more offline local experiences is a very, very interesting trend.” As we wrote about in our posts on Community and the post on Reflections artisans can thrive in this environment.
“Anyone can pick up a device they already own and suddenly become a powerful commerce engine in that particular area.” This could also be useful for entrepreneurs involved in services such as Uber drivers or freelancers doing work on sites like TaskRabbit. Ross goes on to say “But as with other mass infrastructure deployments, like railroads in the 19th century, the full potential of the network is borne out only when other entrepreneurs layer their creativity and commerce on top of it.” He also says “I think of the sharing economy as a way of making a market out of anything and a micro entrepreneur out of anybody.”
It is the golden age of entrepreneurship. Let’s take a look at the third tip to survive the robot invasion.
#3 Go Local, Then Global
Robots will thrive where there are many automated, repetitive tasks. Even as artificial intelligence gets smarter, there will be opportunities for entrepreneurs. “With coded markets available to even the smallest vendors, a trend has arisen that pushes economic transactions away from physical stores or hotels and toward individual people, as they connect either locally or online.” Today, any one of us can process credit card transactions using companies like Square, as mentioned above. This is incredibly freeing and allows anyone, anywhere to process payments. Along those lines, Ross writes: “Though the world’s major cities are fueling the global economy, one does not need to be in an alpha city to succeed. In fact, Internet technology allows people to be almost anywhere and operate a successful business.” An entrepreneur couple I’ve mentioned previously (see Pure Living for Life) runs a blog, YouTube channel, Instagram presence, Twitter presence, etc. profiling their move to off the grid living. They started on a bare piece of land in Idaho, but technology allowed them to create this multimedia presence to document their off grid journey. Come to think of it, if they have Internet are they off grid??? They started local and are now global.
Another concrete example of this starting local then going global is one of my favorite woodworkers, Marc Spagnuolo, The Wood Whisperer. Marc started locally building commissioned furniture, but then realized the amazing potential of the Internet. He started teaching fellow woodworkers via his blog, then videos on his website. He now has a global empire and operates globally via his blog, videos, DVDs, etc. Woodcraft Magazine just ran a great profile of him. Check out the article here.
This concept of starting local then going global has been a good model for Traughber Design. We started custom woodworking locally and the blog is now read around the world, in 33 countries at last count.. It’s interesting to look at the metrics and see what far-flung countries are reading it.
We’ve covered a lot of ground today. Follow these three keys and you’ll be well on your way to surviving the robot invasion:
#1 Make Your Own Job #2 Go Microentrepreneur With The Codification of Money, Markets, and Trust #3 Go Local, Then Global
This is Part Two of our interview with Mo Johnson, the owner of Better Display Cases. In this part of the interview Mo gives indispensable wisdom for anyone launching a business. For Part One click here.
I got a few interviews on some websites that were kind of biggish. I never made it to ESPN, but I was making a name for myself. But then along the way Google changed the rules and it became much more difficult for an independent website to rank for those kind of search terms. I don’t blame Google. When I started, a lot of people didn’t think the Internet was a big deal, so it was easy to compete if you just knew a little bit you could rank very high. So I just learned a little bit, in retrospect, and I probably thought I was a genius. It was just a few simple things I was doing. First of all you have to search for a keyword that is profitable, and you know, by the way all this stuff applies today to what I’m doing now so it’s worth talking about. So the first thing you want to do is find search terms that a lot of people are looking for, but there is relatively little competition so you can do well. You also want them to be profitable so product stuff is really good. Where were we?
How you got started with the idea for the business.
Google sort of changed the rules so for product search terms. I wasn’t really adding a whole lot of value for the most part. The only thing you had to do to rank high back then was find the keyword, put it in the title, put it in the first paragraph, put it in the last paragraph, maybe in the middle, put it in the meta tag which is a simple thing. I was using a particular website builder. You are telling Google what the keyword is that you are focusing on. You need to put that in the description and also the meta title. It was good to have an image or two that again use that keyword you have all this stuff going on in the page that tell Google this page is about this keyword. At that time, that was all you had to do. It didn’t really matter if it was a quality page or not because nobody else was doing this, so you could easily rank at the top. But Google got a lot smarter and they look at a lot more factors. The truth of the matter is, for the customer honestly it’s probably better for them if they are looking for Alabama Crimson Tide football to go directly to Amazon or directly to the eBay listing rather than going through my page which honestly didn’t really add a whole lot of value, you now what I’m saying? I understand why Google did it. But whatever, it happened. All I’m saying is my traffic went from way high to just nothing, or almost nothing. So that went away. So I struggled a bit to try to make it work. Eventually I pretty much gave up. I still have that website. I still have SECSportfan. It still makes money, but not enough for me to spend much time on, unfortunately. So that is kind of a downside of what Google did, because there were probably more quality sites back then, because there was more reward for it, in my opinion. You need to be a big company that can invest a lot of resources to make it a high quality website for there to be any return on your investment.
So how did you transition to display cases?
So eventually I kind of dropped that idea and around and about that time I had to come up with something different. I was retiring. By the way, I applied for government jobs, and I would have been very happy to receive a government job. If I had, that’s probably what I would be doing. I would be driving up to DC and sitting in a cubicle and doing the government thing and that would be okay. Might be better.
It doesn’t sound like you’d be very passionate about it, though.
No, I wouldn’t be passionate at all. That’s what you give up. Now that I’ve been on the other side, that’s not a bad deal. I mean, being an entrepreneur in my experience has been very hard. Very hard. I can’t overemphasize that. And very risky. And I’ve been very lucky, very blessed, but there is no guarantee. A lot of things that could happen that my business is ruined. Every day you have to worry about that as an entrepreneur if you own a business. If somebody wants to hand me a government job at $100,000 guaranteed money, not much stress, not even much work, I’d want to talk about it you know what I mean (laughing), for the good of my family. You have to understand, I have a lot of…
You have a big facility here, over 5,000 square feet you were telling me when you took me on the tour, and something could happen. You could have a fire, act of God, who knows. There’s some risk.
The more concern is my selling channels like Amazon. Right now I have a fantastic relationship with Amazon, better than ever. Amazon has improved things, I think, so that they are not as arbitrary. If you were to search on the Internet something about, I don’t know, “seller stories with Amazon”. There are all kinds of horror stories. I have a friend who lost his account on Amazon, mostly because of things that were not his fault. It’s not right. That’s scary. Amazon has just recently done some things. I was afraid, see this is what I was getting at with the stress thing. He lost his account in November, early November, I was afraid I might. We had some of the same issues. It wasn’t real clear even what the issues were. We still don’t even know why he lost his account. He just lost it. Part of it probably was some things he was doing that I’m not doing. He was selling MLB licensed products, and I guess he shouldn’t have been. He bought the MLB licensed products, but Football Fanatics which is now called Fanatics apparently has purchased the rights to all MLB licensed products and they told Amazon all these people shouldn’t be selling. Now there are all these lawsuits because this doesn’t seem right. All these people bought legitimate products that they were selling so it doesn’t seem right that they can be told retroactively told sorry you no longer have a right. There are some legitimate issues there. It’s all being fought out in court. In the meantime, though, my friend lost his Amazon account. Now he had some other things going on, I think. My only point about this whole thing is it’s uncertain, and it’s stressful. That’s kind of what I was getting at there.
Luckily, on the way, I was also worried about some shipping issues at the time. I was getting all these red flags on my account. Your shipping is late. That’s a whole another issue about Fatheads shipping that I rely on and that’s another problem. That’s another reason that I would just assume get away from Fatheads because I have to rely on their shipping when its late it reflects on me, and again, I could lose my Amazon account. Turns out there were some issues Amazon was not tracking things correctly so really it was more Amazon’s fault.
A couple weeks later, while I was in the middle of this stressful situation, I got an E-mail from them saying “congratulations, you’ve been selected as one of our top sellers, and you are now in a special program”. I was assigned to a special account and given a somebody who would help me with any problems that I had. I did have some problems at that time. See I told you with this interview, I could talk all day.
It might be a two parter here. We’ll see.
Direct me another way. I don’t know. Anyway, we were talking about #1 product, right?
Tell me about the #1 product.
So my #1 product was banned from Amazon.
Banned from Amazon.
Banned from Amazon. Gone. Deleted. The reason for that it had MLB in the title. It said MLB. It’s not. It has nothing to do with MLB. There’s no logo on there. It was just to help the customer understand that if they had an MLB baseball bat it would fit on the display. It had MLB, something else, something else, all these key words. Totally stupid. But Amazon, they are this big huge company they send a notice “get rid of MLB”. Zoom. Hundreds of thousands of listings with MLB in them are gone. So I went from selling 20 of those per day (pointing to baseball bat display on wall), #1 product, very profitable, to nothing. And I had hundreds of them because we were getting ready for Christmas. So I had sent hundreds of them to Amazon. They were sitting in the Amazon warehouse and I’m paying storage fees every day. What am I going do? I’m losing money. But maybe they’re going to reactive it. They tell you to go get permission from the MLB to sell it. I went to MLB. Of course it takes weeks, and eventually they did send me a reply “Oh, we’re very sorry for this problem. We never complained about your listing. I don’t know why Amazon did this. Please let them know we have no problem with your product.” Of course, that took about 3 weeks before I got that E-mail back. By then I had already fixed the problem because of my new guy who was assigned to me and he was able to sort of intercede because he works for Amazon. It took him about 10 days to talk to different people and whatever he had to do to get that reactivated. So we just got rid of the term MLB. So that’s back up. Then, and not just that one, we had about ten products like that. A lot of baseball stuff. All our baseball stuff had MLB in it so were all thrown off Amazon then it was all reinstated. But when that happens you’ve lost sales history, now, so the product loses it ranking. You know, there are a lot of factors that Amazon uses to rank products but the most important one is sales velocity. So if you’ve lost your sales, you’ve gonna lose your…
You start all over again.
So we were down at the bottom of the page. And so I had to do a lot of things. But now it’s back stronger than ever and hopefully we won’t have any more problems. All this relates to a whole bunch of things, including the stress on an entrepreneur who is the owner who is responsible at the end of the day. If you’re an employee and the business goes bankrupt you just go find another job. It’s not such a big deal. One of your questions was would you advise someone to be an entrepreneur. No. No. If you can get a good job that isn’t stressful. Now, there are a lot of rewards from being an entrepreneur so I also wouldn’t say don’t be an entrepreneur. And really I can only answer that question ultimately probably on my deathbed looking back and we’ll see. I don’t know. If I become a millionaire because of it, then yeah, it was great. For every millionaire I’m sure a hundred people fail.
We will continue this interview in Part Three. Stay tuned for another post…